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江蕙+多明哥 「雨夜花」 P. Domingo sings Taiwanese song!


If you know Taiwanese, this is a must see:

 江蕙+多明哥 sings 雨夜花 "Flowers in the Rainy Nights".
 This show aired on Taiwan's Public Television.


           雨夜花影音檔下載點

LQ download.

           http://myweb.hinet.net/home14/weiyueh0609/2002-11-29-2.wmv


Last edited by ccwf, 7/29/2005, 2:11 pm
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Re: P. Domingo sings Taiwanese song!


Placido Domingo, the consummate gentleman with one of the world's most technically perfect voices. What a pleasure to see the clip you posted, merela. I just love those concerts with orchestra and a large choral group—not to mention the beautiful women guests with their lovely voices. (I am delighted to see that Mr. Domingo, though in his mid-60s, still has what it takes!)

It always gives me chills to hear such an appreciative audience, too.

Last edited by nchristi, 7/10/2005, 1:03 am
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Re: P. Domingo sings Taiwanese song!


This clip has just begun to circulate amongst the overseas Taiwanese community. Not only do we get to hear a song that brings back fond childhood memories (and sang by the queen of Taiwanese songs), we also see a world-class opera singer sang in Taiwanese!

There are political, national, and cultural meanings and implications to this clip (or the content of it) which are not lost on me. I'm thrilled to be able to share it.

It was truly amazing to see Placido Domingo enunciated every word correctly of the 2 lines (from the songs) he sang. Taiwanese (Hok Lo) dialect has 7-tonal differences and it's difficult to master. The skill of Domingo is truly impressive.

FYI, the choral group behind the orchestra is from one of the best private highschools (Wei Ger Highschool) in Taiwan (Taipei).

           *******
This information is for those who can read Chinese (obviously emoticon ). I'll try to translate it into English later today:



這首歌描寫的是真人真事的遭遇:

  一位純潔質撲的鄉下女孩,離開故鄉到都市謀生。她愛上了一位男孩,並已論及婚嫁。但是後來那男孩卻遺棄了她,致使她淪落風塵……

  一朵在黑夜裡被風雨吹落的花,就像她的命運:她「離葉離枝」掉落地上受人踐踏的遭遇,誰不感到心酸及惋惜呢?

  在當時男尊女卑的社會傳統下,這個令人哀嘆的小故事,是許多女子共同的心聲吧?令人說不完、也訴不盡……

  淒涼悲哀的 《 雨夜花 》 ,感人肺腑扣人心弦,歌詞中所描述的「雨」、「夜」、「花」後來變成臺語流行歌曲重要的主題意象,影響臺語歌詞的創作方向。


 

《 歌 詞 》

雨夜花、雨夜花、受風雨吹落地,無人看見,暝日怨嗟,花謝落土不再回。
花落土、花落土、有啥人通看顧,無情風雨,誤阮前途,花蕊凋落欲如何。
雨無情、雨無情、無想阮的前程,並無看護,軟弱心性,乎阮前途失光明。
雨水滴、雨水滴、引阮入受難池,怎樣乎阮,離葉離枝,永遠無人通看見。
 


Last edited by merela, 7/10/2005, 4:28 am
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Re: P. Domingo sings Taiwanese song!


classblockquotemerela wrote:

There are political, national, and cultural meanings and implications to this clip (or the content of it) which are not lost on me.
If you wouldn't mind sharing, I very much would like to know the "cultural meanings and implications" contained within the clip. (Is it loosely akin to Captain Von Trapp singing Edelweiss before the Nazi invaders? And a world class figure lending his support by partcipating in the song?)classblockquoteIt was truly amazing to see Placido Domingo enunciated every word correctly of the 2 lines (from the songs) he sang. Taiwanese (Hok Lo) dialect has 7-tonal differences and it's difficult to master. The skill of Domingo is truly impressive.

FYI, the choral group behind the orchestra is from one of the best private highschools (Wei Ger Highschool) in Taiwan (Taipei).
With the roar that went up from the audience, I figured he had touched their hearts with his pronunciation of their language, not an easy task, judging by the Taiwanese reaction. Thank you for your note on just how complicated the language is. Placido Domingo is a master technician in a whole bunch of ways, besides being a genuinely beautiful person at heart. I have great respect for him as a human being.

The young people in the choral group were quite accomplished, as well. I was a little surprised when the closeups showed how young they were.

P.S. Do you know the conductor's name?
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Re: P. Domingo sings Taiwanese song!


classblockquotenchristi wrote:

P.S. Do you know the conductor's name?
The conductor's name is Karl Sollak.classblockquotenchristi wrote:

I very much would like to know the "cultural meanings and implications" contained within the clip.
I would love to write about what I mean, but I need to think about it before I write, otherwise, it will be too subjective. I know there are many people visiting this board, so I don't like to talk about my personal political views on this board. Afterall, this is a drama/entertainment-related board and not a forum to discuss political idealisms.

In any case, this song, after hearing it, gives Taiwanese all over the world (more so for overseas Taiwanese) a sense of belonging, a sense of national pride, and a feeling of sadness.

Kudos to Placido Domingo for coming to Taiwan and made all Taiwanese people (those in the audience) and those watching on TV a sense of pride of their culture. Essentially, a world-class musician is singing a local folk song that represented Taiwan and the Taiwanese people in the past--one of oppression and powerlessness.

The fact that the Taiwan government (or the show's sponsors) have the money to invite someone like Placido Domingo to come to our country to perform would be unheard of (or unthinkable) even 25 years ago. I believe this is only possible because the Democratic Progressive Party is in power. Even before 1980, the Taiwanese dialect was considered a local dialect (or lower class language) and Mandarin was the language of power, although 80% of the Taiwanese people spoke either Taiwanese (Hok Lo) or Hakka dialects.

I remembered working in Taiwanese TV News Department in 1988 as an intern and the News Director was surprised that I was "Taiwanese" because my ID indicated that I'm of Taiwanese parentage (which means my parents were born in Taiwan rather than China). He commented that I did not speak Mandarin with a Taiwanese accent. In those days, any hint of Taiwanese accent would have precluded me from working in any official capacity in any media-related work. That's just my experience.

Nowadays, a Taiwanese citizen can speak any dialect and would not be discriminated against. The fact that a "lowly" song (lowly because anything Taiwanese was considered by the mainstream power as uncultured) is now front and center--and anyone who hears it can see it's a beautiful song--sends chills down my back! The under-culture is now mainstream and respected as such.

Of course, the song brings back wonderful memories of Taiwan as a country of hardworking, plain, and simple people. Of course, Taiwan is no longer as innocent as days past, especially under the constant domination, threat, and intimidation by the mainland Chinese. By listening to the song, we forget what's ahead and we get to relive a beautiful moment from the past.

This song, Flower in the Rainy Night is so popular that any Taiwanese person will have heard it many times in their lifetime. Although they may not know the exact lyrics, everyone can hum the music.

For many in this world that insist Taiwan as part of a whole, this song is an embodiment of the Taiwanese mentality, history, and identity. I doubt a mainland Chinese will reflect on this song the way I did and still do.

I've rambled on....not sure if I answered your question....and it still turned out to be a subjective discourse on my views about this clip. But every Taiwanese person I've emailed this link have said it gave them a new meaning to their love for Taiwan. We were all very touched by it without really knowning why.

Please check above post later. I will complete the translation of the Chinese text soon.



Last edited by merela, 7/10/2005, 11:04 am
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Re: P. Domingo sings Taiwanese song!


classblockquotenchristi wrote:classblockquotemerela wrote:

There are political, national, and cultural meanings and implications to this clip (or the content of it) which are not lost on me.
If you wouldn't mind sharing, I very much would like to know the "cultural meanings and implications" contained within the clip. (Is it loosely akin to Captain Von Trapp singing Edelweiss before the Nazi invaders? And a world class figure lending his support by partcipating in the song?)
An (imperfect) analogy I sometimes use is to compare the Taiwan/Nationalist/China situation to the one between Ireland and the UK. Apparently, others find the analogy apt, too.

Excerpt from Little Islands Seeking Freedom by Shane M Coughlan, which I would encourage everyone to read in full:classblockquoteIf I were asked to introduce myself, the first thing I would say is that I am not British. I am Irish. I'm from the Republic of Ireland. I'm from a small island that claimed independence from its larger and more powerful neighbour. Ireland shares a great deal with Britain in culture, politics, way of life and language. For a very long time our destinies were intertwined. Until 1922 we were part of the British Empire. But we insisted on a separation from our 'parent' nation.

Perhaps this situation sounds familiar to Chinese readers.
[…]
Taiwan and China share something in common with Ireland and Britain. They are both situations where people who have the same language, and have much the same culture, end up being worst enemies. It is as if the more people share, the more likely they are to form unsolvable tensions. This is ironic, and it is tragic.

Perhaps such tensions arise because people understand each other too well. Perhaps they arise because of perceptions of inequality. Perhaps it's a simple matter of wanting self-determination. But however they come about, these tensions lead to unbelievable amount of pain. There is suffering not through war, but also through the huge strain on societies that live with the pressure of a constant threat.
As I wrote, the analogy is imperfect. The domination of the media has been more complete, perhaps because there was no equivalent to the IRA to make the world pay attention. As a result, the situation between the Taiwanese people, the Nationalist government (KMT), and China is much less well understood in the West.

I own quite a number of CDs of Irish music. One of the appeals of the music to me is that, while little of it is overtly political, much of it has a certain sadness that I think is rooted in this troubled history. Taiwanese folk music has a similar quality, probably for the same reason.

And, mirroring something else Mr. Coughlan wrote, the analogy does not translate into complete support from me for Ireland vs. the UK. Not at all. But I do sympathize with their cause.

Last edited by ccwf, 7/10/2005, 5:54 pm


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Re: P. Domingo sings Taiwanese song!


classblockquotenchristi wrote:

With the roar that went up from the audience, I figured he had touched their hearts with his pronunciation of their language, not an easy task, judging by the Taiwanese reaction. Thank you for your note on just how complicated the language is.
I would say the reaction is because such a person made this great effort. If you've watched the commercials during UTB's Chinese programming, you'll have seen that non-Chinese people are occasionally featured speaking Chinese. That's because we appreciate it when someone non-Chinese makes the effort to learn our language and can do so comprehensibly. And when that language is not Mandarin but the much rarer Taiwanese (Hoklo) and when that person is so famous, that makes it really, really special.

(On the flip side, there is some negative reaction to people like myself: people of Asian descent with limited language ability in their ancestral language. I've seen some discussion in the Korean topics indicating that views may be similar in that community.)

As for the language itself, I agree that it's probably more complicated than Mandarin. Not only are there more tones, but there are also more sounds and more grammatical freedom (and a bunch of Japanese loanwords). For example, you can choose to use Subject-(particle)-Object-Verb sentence constructions (like Japanese and Korean) and not just the Subject-Verb-Object word order used in Mandarin. Many think Mandarin arose as a synthesis or trade language between a couple of northern dialects, which may be why it's simpler.

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CJK is a never-ending journey of enlightenment for me. So much to learn.... Thanks to both of you merela and ccwf for the vistas you have provided in your remarks and reference and for taking the time to express yourselves (most judiciously) on a very sensitive topic.


  
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Wonderful topics, and great insights from all 3 of you. Thanks!

Hok Lo seems like a difficult dialect with 7 tones!? How many does standard Beijing Mandarin have? But you are right, people would take pride in somebody learning a dialect rather than the standard language.

I used to be valiantly anti-DPP, and I still don't support them as much as I support the KMT, but I must admit that since they have began to rule Taiwan, it has become much more democratic and nationalistic than ever before.

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Re: …


classblockquoteHiroshi66 wrote:

How many does standard Beijing Mandarin have?
I think English speakers are generally taught there are four. The tones are numbered from one through five.

Example:classblockquotexml:langzh-TWclassromanizedhao3 yi1 duo3 mei3 li4 de5 mo4 li4 hua1Or, using diacriticals instad of numbers (the tone marks button to the right of the special characters menu converts pinyin written using tone numbers to these diacriticals)classblockquotexml:langzh-TWclassromanizedhǎo yī duǒ měi lì de mò lì huā

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